KARL SANDERS

Easily one of the most influential musicians of the Death Metal scene, Karl Sanders, the eminent guitarist and mastermind of the world-wide acclaimed band NILE, has now released his first soloist album via Relapse Records. Back to the Grave explored this new facet of his by means of an enlightening interview.

BTTG – Greetings Karl, welcome to The Grave and congratulations on your debut solo album Saurian Meditation. Would you please start off by revealing the line-up that recorded the album and the motivations behind it?

Karl – OK. I play the Baglama Saz, Acoustic Guitar, Keyboards and Computers; Mike Breazeale does vocals, Pete Hammoura is on Percussion, as well as some extra guests/friends. I suppose the motivation was really just to have fun, relax making some quiet music – music that I make that’s kind of personal, made in my spare time as a way to take a break from Death Metal.

BTTG – Notwithstanding the common elements with the music you write for NILE, Saurian Meditation is much more tranquil while never losing the exotic edge. Is this the result of an imperative impulse to fully express your artistic needs? Some sort of Forbidden Path Across the Chasm of Self-Realization perhaps?

Karl – Yes, I suppose you are quite right. The quieter, hypnotic element is sort of another facet to my musical personality – I am a Gemini – on the one hand I love Metal Crushing Heavy music – but I also like stuff that sounds like ancient ritual Hypnotic worship stuff – like something to put people in a trance before sacrificing them to some horrific Reptiles.

BTTG – Musically, there are some striking aspects to Saurian Meditation that should not be left disregarded. On the one hand, there are some of the atmospheres that are in NILE (without the heaviness); there are also moments which remind of DEAD CAN DANCE and Of the Sleep of Ishtar is an active reminder of BLACK SABBATH. So what are broadly speaking your musical influences?

Karl – DEAD CAN DANCE, BLACK SABBATH. hahahahahahahaha LOL.

I am still laughing, 5 minutes later.

OK, perhaps TRIAL OF THE BOW, SPK, ROBIN TROWER, AL DIMIOLA, ULI ROTH VIDNA OBMANA.

BTTG – Artwork and music work together to form the unity of Saurian Meditation. This unity however would be unattainable were it not for the concept behind. Can we safely regard this «Meditation» as some sort of autobiography? Is this some sort of ancient meditation that ultimately binds Man’s telluric and beastly heritage from the times of the reptiles of the suborder Sauria? Or just a metaphor…

Karl – No, you have it right. Modern Man was not the first to walk upright upon the Earth, and his time will soon be over. Our existence is but a vain temporary dream – and somehow, when I look into the eyes of crocodiles and Snakes – I can feel them meditating upon this – biding their time in trancelike meditation, ever waiting for Man to wipe himself out, and the Earth to once again be their domain.

BTTG – Your undeniable fascination for the Middle East is not exclusive to music. You are obviously versed in all matters Egypt, but there seems to be a somewhat obscure component that goes beyond Egypt. Or maybe it are the atmospheres. So what is so fascinating about the Middle East civilisations of the past that makes you want to dedicate your lyrical career to them?

Karl – Well, as any student of World History knows, Mesopotamia is the cradle of Civilization on this Planet – even if Africa is the oldest as far as humans are concerned. And there just seems to be a timeless resonance of the history and literature of that region that strikes a hidden chord within me.

BTTG – Most song titles point at some sort of accursed journey from which the traveller shall not expect a bright future – Awaiting the Vultures, Contemplation of the Abyss, Whence no Traveller Returns. Can it safely be assumed that Sick Winds of Pestilence shall await the traveller?

Karl – Yes. The fate of Man was written many millennia ago; we are an utterly doomed species. Only our collective human vanity keeps us shielded from despairing upon this inevitable reality.

BTTG – In Black Seeds of Vengeance you were Defiling the Gates of Ishtar, whereas in Saurian Meditation you perform a musical interpretation Of the Sleep of Ishtar – two songs that barely have any resemblance in nature, especially on a musical level. How do you look upon Ishtar? Also, what is in your opinion on the role of the Female Archetype in Ancient Civilisations and Mythology?

Karl – You are the second person today to ask that EXACT question. Of the sleep of Ishtar and Defiling the Dates of Ishtar have almost nothing in common except, of course, the reference to the Babylonian Ishtar. Of the Sleep of... is straight out of the Necronomicon – I put that song together initially about 15 years ago with the band MORRIAH – and it was really just trying to musically interpret a passage in the Necronomicon – in which I had first come into contact with the classic Sumerian Myth "Inanna's Descent into the Underworld". Defiling the Gates of Ishtar is an unexpurgated version of part of the myth of Enkidu – and to be honest – at the time quite a volatile metaphoric retaliation against a few females in my personal life – who seemed to live life as though men were only pawns to be manipulated via sex. [Aren’t they? Haha – M] It seems I always get mixed up with the wrong kind of women.

My OPINION – on the Archetypal Role of Women in Ancient times? Well, I have read several discussions and treatises on this very topic – but you are asking me for my opinion, and I assume it is unnecessary to fully explain the concept here within the confines of a music interview – And I have a radar going off in my head that says "Tread carefully lest thou accidentally step into a pit-trap of vipers and unintentionally offend a feminist element with your answer" [No need to worry there – M] as in – wouldn't we be all of us happier men and women if only women would just be happier with their societal roles as they existed 3000 years ago? But I think that’s crazy, we are living in a different world nowadays, and I think the battle of the sexes would go a little easier if everybody would chill out, respect each other and try to find ways to understand each other. But then again, this is a Death Metal zine – and probably most of the readers are not only male, but also subscribe to all the classic male ideas about what they expect women to be. So I give up. Please don't nail me to a tree. [Relative though the concept is, I still subscribe to the idea of Freedom of Speech, much as I may disagree – and I do – with the kernel of your theory – M]

BTTG – Could you please elaborate on the cover artwork – is this the All-Seeing Inner Eye that rules the Hand of Power?

Karl – Yes, and it is realized via using a Crocodile Eye. Look at it again, and you will recognize unmistakably the Eye of a Crocodile. Coincidentally, after I had finished the recording and liner notes and everything, and Orion and I had been working on all the stuff for the Album graphics / insert – including the quote from the Unaussprechlichen Kulten, I came across some WAY wacked out ideas on the internet by accident. There are many people who sincerely believe in the age-old Reptile conspiracy theories – who cite all kinds of Ancient Egyptian and Sumerian references ass proof of their ideas – That the earth is actually clandestinely ruled by a small group of intelligent Reptile creatures – creatures left over from the age when the Great Reptiles were ever masters of our planet – who over Millions of years evolved into a highly intelligent species. [Douglas Adams suggested dolphins, as a matter of fact – M]

When the mass extinctions occurred that wiped out the larger dinosaurs, these creatures went underground, built vast subterranean civilisations until the surface would again become inhabitable. But with the rise of the species of man, the ever dwindling Reptile Folk had to hide themselves away – eventually learning through long eons of Occult practice to appear in the guise of men. This remaining small cult of Reptiles use Astral Dreamscape Manipulation to defile into submission the unwary minds of many humans – and thus keep us and our leaders blinded to the reality that they not only exist, but influence the Illuminati, and the ruling class of our planet. Their wish is that one day, after they have used us as unconscious slaves – that we will wipe our selves out in Nuclear Holocaust, and then the Earth will once again be theirs to inhabit and flourish.

Now personally, I think these folks read WAY too much Lovecraft – but I have always found it fascinating to look deep into the eyes of Snakes and Crocodiles. They have this uncanny cold stare. Often they will remain inhumanly motionless for long periods of time – as if they are meditating in a trance or something. So maybe this album is not really meditation music for humans, but Trance music for Lizards. Who knows.

Ironically, my 9 year old kid LOVES to play with these little rubber Snakes, alligators and lizards, and leaves them lying all over our flat. I guess he sees all of my Egyptian Statues and stuff and especially my statue of Sebek the Crocodile God, and he figures this is HIS way of contributing to decorating his space. LOL

I suppose a casual observer may be prompted to wonder if I believe in this Reptile conspiracy crap, but really I am just a Lovecraft fan at heart – except I know where to draw the line between science fiction and reality.

BTTG – Should one regard Saurian Meditation as an independent effort of will or will you resent the inevitable comparisons with NILE? In that sense, are there any plans to support the album live?

Karl – No live touring. I tour extensively with NILE, and that’s enough. Besides I am a single parent, and I think touring two bands would be wrong in regard to my child's needs. No, I don't resent the inevitable comparisons to NILE; it is part of who I am, just as Saurian Meditations is another part of who I am. But I do in fact think of it as an independent effort of will. That Gemini thing again, I guess.

BTTG – On a different note, you have recently recorded a guest solo for the song Xul off the upcoming BEHEMOTH record, Demigod. How did it come to being and what do you make of the experience?

Karl – Well, I am a BEHEMOTH fan, and Nergal and I are friends who correspond often. I was quite honored that they asked me to do a spot on their record. They are a great band, hard working, talented and kick ass. Nergal sent me the track via internet, I recorded my part and sent it back the same way. It was fun, and I was happy and honored that they would include me on their new record.

BTTG – So what are your music-related plans for the future? Any plans for releasing another solo album in the future?

Karl – Well, on the immediate table is of course the New NILE record – we are busy writing and rehearsing with the new Drummer, George Kollias. We are hoping to record in December, and then our first tours are No Mercy in Europe and then support for KING DIAMOND in America. After that, I fully intend to do another Ambient kind of album, play my Baglama Saz some more, and dream up new ways of urging mankind on onwards annihilation whilst hypnotizing them with Ancient Reptile Trance music.

www.nile-catacombs.net | www.relapse.com

By Morgana (e-mailed) November, 2004

Photos © Relapse Records

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