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The Dutch Ordo
Draconis are undoubtedly one of the most surprising Black Metal acts arising
from the Low Lands. Filled with more ups than downs, the band’s history is
currently developing into higher stages of evolution. With almost completely
re-arranged line-up, the follow up to The
Wing & The Burden is due out anytime soon… hopefully. The current
interview was conducted over a time-span of 2 years and, even though some of
the information is not strictly recent, it is always a valuable testimony of
the band’s history and activities in the course of time. Guitarist Rahab and
keyboardist Midhir provided The Grave and its readers with a number of vital
words on very many philosophical as well as mundane subjects. An interview
which is easily one of the very best the band has seen published. BTTG – Dragonhails to you, mighty Rahab. Again we
meet under the interview format. To start it off, would you go through the
torture of letting us know how and when it all began, possible line-up
changes (and why), releases and so forth, and whatever else you find
suitable?
Hopefully it shows! The general response to the album has been good,
though to some the album turned out to be a bit hard to digest. I think it
was already with this album we initiated a musical path away from the typical
black metal stereotypes. On our second album, Camera Obscura, we’re continuing on this road. Although I am
aware it will sound as a horrible cliché, I guess the new album will turn out
more mature... more “own”. The first recording session has just been
finished, not even a week ago. There have been quite a number of changes
since the recording of The Wing &
the Burden. Our drummer and our vocalist both left because they could no
longer identify with the music. Moloch was replaced by Tyrann who is also
handling the vocals in the outstanding Luxembourgish band VINDSVAL. Because
the drum parts to some of the new songs are rather demanding, it turned out
to be rather difficult to find a suitable replacement for Arco. Until the
moment we decided to record the album, none had been found, so for Camera Obscura we have been working
with a session drummer; Moritz (ex-DORNENREICH, ex –ABIGOR, EVENFALL/DARKWELL/STERNESTAUB/ENID/GOLDEN
DAWN/ANGIZIA, etc, etc.). He’s really a very skilled drummer and it was a
great pleasure having him handling the drums! During the studio session the
drummer of one of the most well known Dutch death metal bands volunteered to
come and drum in ORDO DRACONIS. We’ll see how things work out. [ORDO DRACONIS have already found a
permanent drummer, and he is none other than ALTAR’s former drummer M01R03O himself–
M]. At this point, all the music has been recorded and vocals and mixing remain
to be done, somewhere early 2004. The first session took place in the Tidal
Wave studios, in Karlsruhe, Germany; a change of studio for this album. Though
we’re still happy with the job Hans Pieters did on The Wing & the Burden, we wanted a rawer, more kick-ass
production for Camera Obscura. The
fact that the producer Patrick Damiani was familiar with our previous work
and plays in a metal band (VINDSVAL) somewhat in the vein of ORDO DRACONIS
helped a great deal for getting things done in the way we wanted. You can
take my word for it that Mr Damiani is going to be one of the big metal
producers in the next few years! He has done quite a number of outstanding
productions already (new CDs of ENID, FALKENBACH, WICKED SENSATION, OBSIDIAN
GATE, SECRETS OF THE MOON) and I’m absolutely convinced that there are many
more to come. The great thing about working with Patrick is that he’s both
critical and motivating at the same time. He has a great ear for music, he’s
willing to think creatively with the band on how to add something extra or to
obtain the desired effect, but he doesn’t push his ideas and most of all he’s
really eager and motivated to do the best job possible. In early 2004, we’ll finish the mix of the
7 new songs plus in/outros and interludes. The whole album will clock over 70
minutes – and one thing is sure: it will be quite a listening experience! The
album will be very diverse, from time to time rather weird and definitely
rawer and more powerful than its predecessor. BTTG – The Dragon is a vital element in the band -
you can see that from several aspects: the band name (Ordo Draconis), the atmosphere, the lay-out, some members'
pseudonyms (Rahab Draconis), the topics approached in the lyrics (the
concept of chaos and the dragon, for instance). Why have you chosen this
connection to the dragon for the band name? There are connections to be held
with Vlad Tepes, the impaler. How do you connect your views on the Dragon as
symbol and the Order of the Dragon as a whole? Midhir – Ordo Draconis
is a Latin phrase which, as anyone might imagine, translates into English as
‘The Order of the Dragon’ (although draco
could also denote a serpent). We’ve allowed the band name to be sufficiently
elusive and open to interpretation, not to let any description bridle our
creativity, except for that very part of the concept which embodies our
imaginative freedom. Various interpretations of the symbolic significance of
the dragon are possible, and I’ll try to indicate a few of them. Let me first
bring into play the way the dragon is included as one of the animal symbols
used in alchemy. The widespread and parallel use of animal symbolism by
autonomous alchemists brought Carl Jung to his theory of the collective
unconscious, so perhaps in that sense the dragon would be a universal
archetype deeply embedded in the human mind. Alchemy often situates the
dragon at both the beginning, which marks the potentiality of darkness, and,
in winged form, at the end of the moulding process (mind over matter). And so,
alchemical writings often present the Ouroborus dragon or serpent, which
bites itself in the tail when the cycle becomes full circle. With this in
mind, I would like to say that there is an interesting duality of polarities
contained within the band name. Down from the Mesopotamian creation myth
(presumably even earlier), the dragon often embodies the primal waters of
chaos (even as the biblical primal chaos has been depersonified, we can still
retrace its origins to a dragon like Tiamat). Creation entails the potential
of preceding chaos, such as when Marduk slays Tiamat, and, roughly, so does
revolution. Now then, the first component of the band name would be as
ambivalent in Latin as it is in modern English: ordo is not only a word for order in the sense of a religious
organization or a privileged class, but also order as opposed to chaos. It’s
this cyclic alternation of order and chaos (perhaps we may speak of the
antagonism, in the muscular sense of the biceps and triceps, between them),
that’s crucial to progress and knowledge. As such, the name, both on a
macrocosmic and microcosmic level, refers to how growth and progress may
issue from the breaking down of order and tradition. I should hasten to add
that among the potentialities I therefore include the aspect of opposition,
the destructive aspect that has been typically attributed to the dragon. I
say this from an ideological point of view, but perhaps we can also find that
in myth. Think of the dragon of which the teeth would grow to be the
indigenous people of Thebes, or of Fafnir, of which the blood would render
its vanquisher Sigurd or Siegfried nearly invincible. Similarly, but also in
many other ways, the name refers to the creative process of the artist. It’s
also about breaking with conventions, still using the raw material (the
potential of chaos) but Rahab –
Yes, indeed there are certain connections to Vlad Tepes, who was a member of
his own order of the dragon. The link that connects our band to the mystified
Vlad Tepes figure is more pragmatic in nature and not as profound. The idea
of ‘the blood is the life’ appeals to
me, for the blood represents the same kind of dedication as we feel towards
our music, yet in a less abstract way. The blood = the life = our essence =
our music = the dragon. Because we wanted to put a seal on our dedication to
what we are doing with ORDO DRACONIS, Moloch and I hand-numbered the first
100 copies of both our demos with our own blood. BTTG – How about yourself? You chose 'Rahab'
for a number of reasons all right - and I doubt if you will want to be anyhow
associated with the Jewish woman! 'Rahab' can also be confounded with the
Sea-Serpent Leviathan (although they are, to a certain extent, equivalent).
Which similarities do you find between the Serpent and the Dragon? Somehow,
there is an elemental connection between these 2 creatures (whereas Air
stands for the Dragon and Water for the Sea-Serpent, Earth is common to
both). I read somewhere that 'Rahab' also symbolizes your melancholic side...
but the Dragon is said to be a powerful creature, right? Would you say
melancholy is also part of the victors? It is curious to notice how the
Dragon is often slain in folk tales. Can you account for that? Do you think
it has anything to do with the whole bloody process of christianisation? Rahab –
Wow, what a load of questions here, haha… My pseudonym does indeed refer to
the primordial chaos dragon Rahab (sometimes also refered to as Leviathan,
sometimes seen as a different entity) and not to the biblical Jewish woman
you mentioned. Since the pseudonym is a rather personal thing, I prefer not
to give any in-depth elucidation. I once wrote the following lines to give at
least some impression of what ‘Rahab’ represents to me: ... Silence was over the waters when Antares’ red
fury climbed the firmament. Four tail-stars twisted down from the skies to
the earth that had become... and the waters wrinkled. ‘As thy Spirit roams
over the waters, I shall dwell within them like its mirrorimage. I shall rule
these desolate domains with the proud care of a king for his sons - and I am
blessed with seven, guarded by my sight. I am like my own son sprung from
infertility. I shall be the sentinel of memories beyond thy creation, when
all order was devoured and all was nothing but me. We shall meet again at the
site of battle, as we have always done, twice. Thou willt slay me and victory
will be mine once more..... death is but another rise of Antares....’ … I am not sure if it will clear up much but it will have to do, haha. Like Midhir already stated in his answer to the previous question,
often no clear distinction is made between dragons and serpents in archaic
languages/texts. Just like ‘draco’, ‘serpens’ can also mean dragon and
serpent. In the bible, the devil is both referred to as ‘that ancient
serpent’ and ‘the great dragon’. So I would say that serpent and dragon often
exceed the level of similarities; they become the same thing. For connections to the elements, you better ask Wyvernrider Morgueldar
Dragonseye of HERESIARH – I am not capable of putting it as brilliantly as he
does. The dragon combines all the elements and, as such, is said to be ruler
over them. I do not see why melancholy and victory shouldn’t match… for me
they match perfectly. A loss or defeat in some sense can be a victory in
another. In myths and legends (not necessarily in modern fantasy literature),
dragons are mostly depicted as ‘evil’ beings. People tend to label things,
they don’t understand ‘evil’, I think it’s interesting and important to
question and, if necessary, to redefine values like ‘good’ and ‘evil’. So the
cause for the extinction of the dragon just might lie somewhere in between
‘justice’ and ‘ignorance/intolerance’. Another view: on a more philosophical
or even metaphysical level, the dragon may represent the potential of chaos –
chaos is the state with the most degrees of freedom, because nothing is
determined yet – translated to the second law of thermodynamics, it’s the
state of highest free energy. Everything has a natural strive for chaos and
eventually, without the input of additional energy, all structure will be
lost. Although I very much dislike the usage of scientific laws for social
issues, there seems to be a resemblance – I could advise Hobbs’ Leviathan for further reading, haha. Anyway,
a loss of structure on a social level automatically leads to the loss of
certainty – life becomes more insecure. The price for certainty, however, is
restriction, and that’s even without considering the amount of energy that
needs to be invested in creating the rigid structure (which might just be
considered a second price). Christianity is but one structure – but creating
it did reduce potential and killed the dragon as the patron of chaos. In a
rigid structure, one doesn’t need to choose or think… everything is
determined – Man has trouble dealing with potential, and therefore tends to
(partially) eliminate it. I think life is about finding a balance between
potential and structure.
BTTG – There are a number of bands whose main topics
(and monikers) also relate to the dragon in some way (whether symbolically or
inspired by fantasy-writers such as Tolkien), the cases of HERESIARH,
DRACONIS SANGUIS, THERION, etc. What do you think of these bands and how much
do you think you have in common with them (as a band)? Are there any other
bands you would consider worthy of mention in this ‘Dragon cult’ of yours? Rahab –
Hmmm… I do not think these bands, together with ourselves, form anything like
a dragon cult in the sense of a large unity. Funny enough, I do appreciate
all the bands you mentioned. I am a big admirer of Christopher’s work with THERION
– very innovative, and I am fond of the influences from classical music in
metal… apparently so is he, haha. His involvement in Dragon Rouge is another
interesting aspect. I am not a member myself, but for the large part I can
relate to their philosophies, not in the least since personal experience
takes up a central role and I have a very ‘egocentric’ (not egotistic!!) outlook
on life. I had a pretty long conversation with Christopher February 2001, for
an interview in my own magazine called Mandrake – he really is a
fascinating character, very modest and dedicated. He took almost two hours
for the interview, until 5 minutes before he had to go on stage and everybody
was already freaking around. He stayed very calm and said he would be ready
in a minute and continued with the interview… the longest he ever did, haha. HERESIARH’s Morgueldar is a fascinating character as well – though we
lost touch a little, I am very curious about their next album – their
approach to the dragon is completely different, but I would say diversity
only keeps things more interesting and everyone should do what suits them
best. I have also been in touch with Ophis from DRACONIS Sanguis for an
interview – their demo Gloria Draconis
was a very interesting one, I think… I haven’t heard any new material yet,
but it seems they have moved to a more death metal-influenced style. There
are dozens of bands around that are inspired by ‘the dragon’ to some extent,
but like I said, I don’t think that it principally creates a special unity –
it might, but it needn’t. BTTG – So far, you have worked with 2 different
female vocalists in your demos - why was that? Dissatisfaction? They only
contributed slightly, at parts. Could you tell us something else concerning
Femke's and Maaike's activities? Would you ever consider the possibility of
having a permanent female vocalist in the band? How does it work live? What
is your general view on the amount of black metal bands with both lead male
and female vocals? Could you point out some examples of the finest and the
worst of the kind, in your opinion? Rahab –
It was intended that Femke, who did the female vocals on our first demo,
would sing on some tracks when we were in the studio for recording our second
demo In Speculis Noctis. In the
end, the tracks on which she would sing were never recorded during that
session, namely a re-recorded version of The
Gloaming of the Haunted Eve and a folky track that had the preliminary
title The Ritual. We wanted to use
two different female vocalists because their voices and way of singing
obviously differed and we wanted to use the kind of vocals that would suit
the tracks best. In the more classically inspired tracks, Maaike’s voice
worked better… and it were these tracks that we ended up recording,
Personally I prefer Maaike’s voice over Femke’s, but it wasn’t like I was
really dissatisfied with Femke’s help on our first demo, on the contrary! Maaike
helped us out on one track on The Wing
& the Burden as well, namely on Wreckage,
but I think she wasn’t that motivated anymore at the time… I think her job
wasn’t as good as it might have been. Neither Maaike nor Femke is involved
with metal anymore these days. For Camera Obscura we have a number of
ambitious plans with the vocals, especially with the first three tracks. These songs form a kind of trilogy and are
set up a bit like theatre play. Obviously,
we want to have different voices for the various characters, and as a matter
of fact some vocalists have already offered to help out. On top of that, we
intend to have some choir parts on the album. I’m in touch with a small
choir, who seem suitable to do the job. I visited one of their performances
and was quite impressed. One of the guys used to live at the same place where
I’m living. I hope it will work out well. We do not intend to expand the line-up with a female vocalist… we
discussed it once in the very early stages of the band, but decided it would
stay something extra. The role of the female vocals is only small and I
believe our vocalist Moloch also does the lines for female vocals when
playing live. I do not think the loss is significant in a live environment. I wouldn’t classify ORDO DRACONIS as the typical male and female lead
vocalist type of black metal band. We will use the possibility of female
vocals where it suits the songs and only if it suits the songs. On The Wing & the Burden only one out
of seven tracks features female singing… there is another small part of
female narration. I dislike the type of bands where ‘the girlfriend’ joins. Can’t
think of any examples of good and bad female vocals in black metal – though
there must be numerous…. It’s not something I particularly focus on while
listening to an album, not with black metal anyway. BTTG – Also noticeable is a certain division, in
both demos, in the topics approached in the lyrics. Moloch writes about 'the
obscure matters', whereas Midhir seems to write about Celtic Lore (A Crimson Dawn (or an Overture to the
Raven-Feathered Queen)' - in praise of Morrigan - in When The Cycle Ends... and Deirdre
of the Sorrows in In Speculis
Noctis). That 'division' can be somewhat predictable from the point of
view of their pseudonyms... What is so fascinating about Celtic Lore and
these tales / myths in particular, that led you, Midhir, to write about them?
Do you like folklore in general or is it a private taste of yours? Are you
planning on keeping this dualistic lyric-writing process? Midhir –
My lyrics are not necessarily based on Celtic folklore. I do have a lot of
interest in such matter, and that has inevitably affected some of my lyrics,
particularly in the early stage of my writing, but I see Celtic folklore as
one out of a range of fascinating things. I’m not sure to what extent I’ll
avail myself of it again, but that is as it comes. Perhaps I’ll transfer a
folk tale, not necessarily a Celtic one, to a modern setting in order to
underline its relevance to the changes and continuities of this day and age. I’ll
see. Surely, Celtic folklore is most pronounced in the lyrics for the songs
you just mentioned. Basically, it’s because Celtic folklore, and folklore in
general, can be good evocative and flexible stuff, allowing me much freedom
to speak in a rich metaphorical tongue. Folk stories are not only retold,
they change, too, so in that sense I’m both following and breaking with a
tradition. I’m a little too cautious to simply state that Celtic folklore is
the basis of these lyrics just because it is practical material to support my
ideas. It’s not like I follow a methodical approach, according to which the
metaphor is entirely subordinate to the underlying idea. It seems as if the
two have originated concurrently and sought to develop from their hazy but
highly stimulating potential, so it’s something in between. One of the
interesting things about Celtic folklore, which is evident in both lyrics, is
the role of the supernatural. I won’t go into that, as that would leave much
of the magic snuffed out (besides, having finished the lyrics, I’m in the
position of the reader again, in nearly equal awe of their bewildering
beauty). I hope you’d be content with hints. A Crimson Dawn draws on a few powerful Celtic motifs which are
connected with war. The Morrigan is usually associated with slaughter in
battle, and appears in the shape of a raven. I have tried to capture the
violent flow of energy that seems to sustain itself in a circular course, a
kind of ecosystem, in which those mysterious women of Celtic myth which are
linked with bad omens, scaremongering, warmongering, the raven, etc. seem to
be the driving force. In passing, I’d like to mention that A Crimson Dawn is suggestive of the
more brutal aspect of Old Irish myth (e.g. Cattle Raid of Cooley), far from
the Romantic restylings of the 19th century, which I reckon have largely
determined our current picture of Celtic folklore. Deirdre of the Sorrows is based on a specific Irish myth, a story
that actually told itself according to my own impressions and imagination,
struggling with the question whether the tragedy is indeed determined
beforehand, be it due to man’s unchangeable nature or to capricious destiny. Sure,
it’s because of a private taste that I decided on these particular stories
and motifs, which is not to say that some of the others have no interests in
folklore and mythology at all. BTTG – As a whole, one might say that ORDO DRACONIS use
the classical guitar 'a little' more than the average BM band. What do you
like so much about playing the classical guitar? In When The Cycle Ends..., there is this tiny classical part (Fading Daylight). Is there a chance
you will include another of the kind in any future release? Is it of common
agreement to include such songs in a release (because there is none in In Speculis Noctis)? Do you like
strictly instrumental projects / albums (which ones)? Rahab – Acoustic
guitar is the instrument with which I learned to play music. I already
listened to metal back then and I did want to play the electric guitar sooner
or later, but incredible as it may sound, I wanted to have the right musical
fundaments and technical skills before starting to play metal. I thought that
taking some classical guitar education was the right way for establishing
that. Looking at it now, my assumptions back then weren’t very right. It
requires different skills and techniques to play electric guitar compared to
acoustic guitar, but I am not saying that it was utterly useless or anything,
not at all. And apart from that, playing acoustic guitar did broaden my
musical horizon – I love the instrument, despite the fact that I am not
particularly good at playing it. And to tell you a small secret, if I were to
chose between electric guitar and acoustic guitar, I would choose the latter
because of its acoustic honesty, purity and innocence. With an electric
guitar you can cover up fuck ups while recording; in principle, that’s
impossible with an acoustic guitar. Fortunately, I do not have to choose! I
do believe that starting by taking some classical guitar influenced my
approach in playing and composing – I am very fond of incorporating
influences from classical (guitar) music and using typical chord structures
for ORDO DRACONIS’ music. Another band, one that I am very, very fond of,
where this shines through more prominently is OBTAINED ENSLAVEMENT, on their Witchcraft and Soulblight albums. There is always a chance that another small piece for acoustic guitar
will be on a future release… I think I have a number of pieces that would
suit. But the decision whether to include such a part or not is made by the
entire band. One of the songs on the second album will probably contain an
acoustic piece of mine that we transcribed to 2 electric guitars and
keyboards. Except for classical music, I do not listen to entirely instrumental
music, so I wouldn’t be able to point out a favourite. The Grymyrk demo by THORNS is an
intriguing piece of music without vocals (or drums for that matter ;-)). BTTG – Reporting back to a previous question... Musicwise,
the boundaries with classical music are becoming ever thinner. Is it a
natural development or something you intentionally work for? How
complementary would you say metal and classical music are? Who are your
favourite composers? Rahab –
I guess it’s more like a natural development. It’s not like we only want to
focus on classical music – there has been a period that both Midhir and
myself were very much into discovering some more classical music and it
clearly shone through in our music. I think influences from classical music
will always be present in our music, but it’s not a goal in itself or
anything. We do not want to feel restricted in any sense when it comes to
creating our music. In my view, the composing of music deals primarily with
giving expression to particular emotions and atmospheres and the usage of
anything that enhances the atmosphere or emotion is intrinsically legitimate.
For instance, the next album will also contain some parts with industrial
drum-computer beats and more experimental drums and vocals, simply because we
think it suits the songs. Puh, I do not think a general answer is possible to the question how
complementary metal and classical music are…. Very much depends. It can be to
a large extent. There are so many good composers – I do not have an absolute
favourite. BTTG – In a previous interview, you told me the
first 3 tracks of In Speculis Noctis
(Opus Draconum, From The Foundations of
Chaos and The Conjuration Complete)
are somehow a trilogy, exploring the concept of chaos and the dragon,
reporting to the Sumerian culture. Bearing in mind that there are 4 tracks on
the whole, this may be symptomatic of some embryonic idea of writing
conceptual lyrics. Would you (as a band) accept the challenge of writing a
fully conceptual album once? Who is, according to you, the best concept-album
writer (other than brilliant King Diamond)? Rahab – As
mentioned, the Camera Obscura album
will contain a conceptual trilogy, with in/outros and interludes (if all goes
as planned, that is). Should turn out to be our most ambitious thing so far. In
my modest yet not entirely objective view, the lyrics to the songs included (L’Espionage, Grafting Gravity, The Writing Tongue and Neuron
Gutter, Neutron Star) are small
masterpieces. Maybe someday we’ll
do a complete concept album… time will tell. In some sense, even the album
after Camera Obscura might become a
conceptual one – we’ll have to see how things will evolve. I do have some
ideas at the moment that might work… depending on the other guys. But to use
yet another cliché J; “things are to be revealed in future times”. I have not heard enough concept albums to have a fair judgement… it’s
not fair of you that I can’t name King Diamond, for he probably is the best
in my view. DIABOLICAL MASQUERADE’s Death’s
Design is very good as well – though it is more of a soundtrack, I guess
you might call it a concept album... BTTG – Could you explain the title The Wing & The Burden? Who chose
it? Is it anyhow the conceptual follow-up of any of the previous releases, or
would you say you have started a new era with your debut full-length? Midhir –
There seems to be a continuous thread running through our work, but we have
not intended to really repeat the specific concepts of our two demos. A Crimson Dawn, a song that dates from
the time of the When the Cycle Ends
demo, still miraculously fits within the framework of the album’s concept. How
would you see the Morrigan in relation to ‘the wing and the burden’? I think
that is a relevant question which is not that easy to answer. Anyway, I
wouldn’t speak of an entirely new era, but in a way, it’s a new beginning,
certainly. I think it was me who’s guilty of coming up with the album title
and persuading the other members to go along with me. The wing and the burden
is a mechanism. Don’t think of merely linear forces which cause a movement up
or down. The interference is highly important, because, for instance, a
heavier burden can make the wing stronger, or the wing may even constitute
the burden, or the other way around (we even had a discussion whether to use
‘and’ or ‘&’, but because of the mechanism it seemed wise to use the one
as it is now). The general idea here particularly derives its fascination
from the way it is explored in the lyrics and music, from the relation
between power and sacrifice, and that between the remedy and the disease, to
that between mortality and ambition, etc. BTTG – What do you hope to achieve with your debut
album now? What innovative aspects have you brought? Have you had the time to
find the mistakes you should not have done? How much do you think ORDO
DRACONIS differ from the majority of the other 'Black Metal' bands? Rahab – Well, primarily we compose, play and record music for
egocentric reasons, namely to fulfil our personal artistic aspirations (to
put it slightly pretentious). Of course, I will not deny that it makes me
very happy when other people (outside the band) appreciate our music as well.
It does give me a very special feeling when it turns out we have succeeded in
creating something that others can relate to! But to preserve artistic
integrity, I think, the artist’s will should always prevail. Of course, it
would be nice if many people would hear our music and it would be even better
if they would appreciate it, but the main thing we wanted to achieve with the
album was to capture our creations in a way that honours them…. And I think
we have succeeded in doing so. As for the material on the album itself – though I don’t like the
expression too much, I guess you might call it ‘more mature’. It’s much more
complex when you analyse it compared to the older stuff, though the
atmosphere should take up the central place in our music; so it was a
challenge to create music that can be listened to at several levels. I
wouldn’t like it if our music would become inaccessible due to technical
twiddley bits – playing skills are subordinate to the songs, not the other
way around. I think we have succeeded in preserving the atmosphere and making
the songs more adventurous, both to play and to listen to. This makes things
more interesting for us. I had told the other band members that I wanted to
record an album that would bear surprises for me, even after many hearings…
and I am heavily involved in the composing of the songs. Nevertheless, we
succeeded in doing so. It was my aim to create an album that would be a
musical journey in which new facets would be discovered with each hearing. Maybe innovative aspects would be a little over-pretentious. I
wouldn’t dare labelling ourselves scene-innovators, which however doesn’t
prevent us from searching for untrodden paths. I think I prefer to speak of
musical challenges instead of innovative aspects. Challenge is probably the
key-concept in our development. There is always a number of musical
challenges I want to confront myself with – simply ideas of things I want to
try and if they work out, we’ll incorporate them into a song. Quite some
examples of that can also be found on The
Wing & the Burden as well, like the re-arranged Danse Macabre part in the song Necropolis, the canon-piece (where all the instruments play the
same thing, but not at the same time – intentionally;-)) in Tiphareth - the Burning Balance, a
re-arranged part of a piece for classical guitar by CARCASSI to which we
added a second guitar part in The Rite…
and so on. Of course, there will always be things that one would do differently
after some while. For The Wing &
the Burden, we had chosen a very transparent production, so that all the
details in the rather complex songs could be heard – when I listen to the
album now, maybe the production is a little too sterile in a way – maybe it
should have been a bit rawer. However, I can’t help still being very
satisfied with the album, alt this time after the recording. I think it’s better to leave it up to others to judge on how different
we are from other black metal bands. Of course I have my personal view – I do
not think we are just the average black metal band and I do believe we have
something to add – that our music has some surplus value to the scene. But
for me the main thing is that it has surplus value for me! BTTG – Do you think originality is such an important
characteristic for a band to be successful nowadays? What do you think of
experimentalism in general? Are you fond of any 'avant-garde' bands (such as CELTIC
FROST)? Despite recognizing a huge value in 'avant-garde' bands, I would say
experimentalism has led some bands to a swamp (SATYRICON, SAMAEL, etc. – my
personal opinion -), in the sense that they have buried themselves and their
past with lousy music. Would you agree? Which 'modern' experimental bands are
you fond of? Rahab -
I do not think that originality is required to be successful, in fact I think
it can even be a burden. Because originality implies that ‘the audience’ is
not familiar with it, the chance is rather big that such music will only
appeal to a small group of people, at least at first instance. I dislike
originality for originality’s sake (just like art for art’s sake)… it’s
pretentious and hollow. On the other hand, I deeply respect people and bands
who ‘do their own thing’, simply because it is what they feel they should be
doing…. even if I do not like/understand their music. Yes, I am quite fond of
a number of avant-gardish bands such as ARCTURUS, EPHEL DUATH, SOLEFALD,
DODHEIMSGARD, THORNS, etc. CELTIC FROST is a band that I respect a lot, but I
do not listen to their music a lot anymore these days. I do agree that
experimentalism can lead bands to the swamp, when it is practised for the
sake of experimenting: just to do it differently no matter ‘if it works’. I
do not agree with your examples though. I do prefer SAMAEL’S earlier work,
but the music they are playing these days is not ‘lifeless’ and I actually
think SATYRICON’S Rebel Extravaganza
is pretty good. I think it is a display of character and courage to dare and
develop and not stick to the thing they know will sell. And their courage
seems to be rewarded: a record deal with EMI. One band where things seem to
be going the wrong way in my view is PECCATUM – despite how much I value
Ihsahn as a composer and a musician. BTTG – After 2 self-released demos (in which you
have devoted great care to the layout & contents), you finally signed to
a label: Skaldic Art Productions (run by the mastermind of FALKENBACH), by
whom you have released The Wing &
The Burden, your debut CD. Did it take a lot of time for ORDO to find a
suitable label? Did you have other proposals? Do you think you will achieve
higher stages, now that you have label support? How has the co-operation been
so far? Which immediate changes did you notice? Rahab –
It did take quite a while to find us a suitable record label. I was getting a
little worried that record labels recognised we would be a pain in the ass,
in the sense that we are rather demanding when it comes to ORDO DRACONIS,
from ourselves as well as from others. Ever since we started out, we have
said to ourselves ‘Either we are going to give it the best we can or we will
not do it at all!’ I think that already showed in our demos. Fortunately,
with the help of a dear German friend of mine, we eventually came in contact
with Vratyas of Skaldic Art at the end of 1999. Vratyas had just released the
first two albums back then (by FURTHEST SHORE and OBSIDIAN GATE). He was the
first to show a strong interest in a cooperation with ORDO DRACONIS after the
release of In Speculis Noctis. We
had a great number of long conversations during which we discussed practical
as well as ideological and philosophical topics, not forgetting the German
policy towards killer dogs and a desire for fluid chocolate pudding!! It was
clear from the start that the right intention was there with both parties. Being
an artist with a strong longing for artistic freedom himself, Vratyas created
a label policy in which the artistic achievements of a band take up a central
place. All label activities are done in a continuous consultation with the
bands, so that everything may be done as much according to the ideals of the
bands as possible. Since ORDO DRACONIS have strong ideas about how we would
like to see things, this is as an aspect that appealed to us very much. Not
to create any misunderstandings: Vratyas is not some kind of label-slave who
does everything ‘his’ bands tell him to; freedom only exists within
restriction and it has a ‘price’: personal responsibility. Through Skaldic
Art, Vratyas offers potential: opportunities that bands can either take or
leave. In either case, they’ll have to take the consequences of that. In my
view, that’s no less than reasonable. Another interesting consequence of
Vratyas‘ approach is respectful and friendly relationship between the
individual bands on the label; bands show interest in what the other bands
are doing and are trying to support each other and to help each other out. I
think that’s pretty unique. Yes, there have been other proposals, even before the recording of In Speculis Noctis, but also after the
Skaldic Art proposal. I surely hope we will reach a higher stage now we are
on Skaldic Art – promotion and distribution are handled much better now for
instance – over 1000 promo copies of The Wing & the Burden were sent
all over the world and distribution is (partly) handled by SPV. I suppose you
could already derive from my previous words that I am very happy to be signed
to Skaldic Art. The cooperation is going well – we try to support each other
as much as we can. An immediate change due to the signing… hmmm difficult to
say – well, the bigger magazines show more interest now… we had interview
features in leading semi-underground publications like Ablaze (GER), Arising
Realm (AUS) and Scream (N). BTTG – And what do you think of FALKENBACH? Which
other 'similar-sounding' bands would you recommend? Rahab –
I think FALKENBACH is one of the leading bands in the epic metal genre. Epic
metal is not a style I listen to every day. Personally, I do not own any FALKENBACH
CDs and I am only familiar with a handful of songs, which sound pretty good;
powerful and still rather catchy. I think Vratyas has established quite
something with FALKENBACH, all by himself – in my view that’s very impressive
and deserves a lot of respect. He has a very clear view on how he wants
things done when it comes to FALKENBACH; intriguing. I do not feel competent
to recommend other bands in the genre, I only know very few. An epic metal
band I like very much is the German band RIMMERSGARD BTTG – Another very important point here is the care
you usually show as regards the layout, which has always been outstanding –
you have got us used to very high standards. How far do you think lyrics and
layout are complementary within ORDO DRACONIS? There seems to be a solemn
unity to me, and speaking of solemnity, the Latin parts provide with a
different amtosphere. Midhir
– Thanks for your appreciation. By the way, it’s Arco who deserves all the
credit for the graphic wizardry. The artwork for The Wing & the Burden is built around a set of themes which
are part of the general concept of the album. You have the wing, and the
blazing globe on the cover is of course the sun, but it need not be
identified as such. It might bring you to associate it with the Fall of
Icarus, or maybe with the myth of Prometheus, in which both the creative and
destructive aspect of fire are important. For further explanation, I refer to
my explanation of the album title in question no.10. The cover of In Speculis Noctis, which translates
as ‘In the Watchtower of the Night’, reflects the overall theme of the
demo-MCD, in that it breathes an enigmatic ambience, a gloomy sense of
imminent misfortune. I’ll give you a good example of the coherence between
layout and lyrics. Deirdre of the
Sorrows has an open end, one being Deirdre casting herself into the sea
(which in itself could be an open end), and the other, albeit reticently,
Deirdre and Naisi being buried next to each other, and two yew trees from
either grave finally intertwining and reuniting them. Along the lines of
this, the image in the background of the first page of the lyrics for Deirdre … is the wild sea, while a
tree rises from the sea at the second page, thereby retaining the discretion
of the second option and perhaps even adding an extra dimension. BTTG – You have played live relatively often now (50
times or so) - also with quite some earth-wide known acts, such as ANCIENT
RITES, WITHIN TEMPTATION, LIAR OF GOLGOTHA, etc. I know ANCIENT RITES
impressed you as persons - would you tell the readers of the event what led
to that? How do you usually convey OD's message and essence on stage? Have
you played outside Holland? Rahab –
Yeah, the gig together with ANCIENT RITES was very nice! We shared the same
dressing room. When we came in, they immediately came up to us to introduce
themselves and we spent some nice time, just relaxing and chatting… it was
very nice; Midhir –
I don’t think playing live is a matter of really emulating the album up to
each and every bit. First, there are inevitable barriers of a practical kind.
You really have to make impossible claims if you want to have the perfect
sound, balance and all that. Even the finest cream of the crop equipment
cannot meet such requirements. Second and most importantly, a stage performance
is essentially different from an album, for instance as to how interaction
works. Playing covers, keeping contact with your audience, being actually
visible to your audience, and the sense that what you hear is played live
probably all contribute to an intimate atmosphere. Unlike an album, you can
respond to the public. For instance, when a few people yelled ‘Slayer,
Slayer!’, we indeed replied by playing SLAYER. Also, and I think this is the
quintessence of a stage performance (and probably of pop music) as opposed to
an album recording, it’s more a matter of feeling the music with its vibes
and pulses instead of closely listening to it. I’d call that organic in a
literal sense, as it appeals far more to the physical level of experiencing
music, particularly with this high level of decibels. That’s why people are
moved to bodily react to the music (excluding throwing tomatoes) in the
widespread manner that we understand as dancing (does this sound too much
like an old black-and-white documentary???). You may also experience music
while sitting in your chair or lounging in your divan, but I won’t go into
such ecological matters right now. Live we are a little rawer and more
unpolished (partly out of necessity). Whether we manage to convey those vibes
I’m not really in the position to answer, but it’s at least our intention and
the overall response, as observed from verbal signs and wildly moving limbs
in the crowd, does seem to confirm it. I also adjust my sounds to the live
environment, taking into account the acoustic leeway in such a situation,
with any luck like the way dance/techno DJs and artists know (intuitively)
what frequencies have what effect at a high intensity of volume. Rahab – So
far we have played abroad thrice – once in Bruxelles (Belgium), twice in the
northern part of Germany. Especially these gigs in Germany were amazing… On
one of them we were treated like kings! All was perfectly arranged:
gas-money, hotel (including breakfast), dinner…. an experience I will not
soon forget. We had a great time… what was the place called again… damn, I am
not able to recall… aja, it was called Leer. Some guy calling himself Count
Gothmog (he plays in a band called FUNERAL PROCESSION) had done all the
arranging…. and a splendid job he did do. Really, I was getting shy at the
time; we were treated like bloody rockstars. It was about seven, and we were
getting hungry, so we went up to him and asked where we could find some place
to eat. So, he just ordered a number of pizzas for us. We asked if we had to
pay up front or on arrival… we didn’t have to pay at all. Shortly afterwards,
a more local band came up to the Count ‘Where can we find something to eat?’ …
‘Oh, there’s a pizzeria just at the end of the road,’ he said (and it was so
freaking cold one’s toes were falling off). Damn, I really did know where to
look for a second… The other gig in Germany was ENID’s CD presentation for Seelenspiegel - I played a song
together with them as well... was great fun too! BTTG – You always mention De Baroeg, your
Dutch 'Black Metal shrine'. Could you enlighten us a bit more about it? Who
would you like to see playing there (that you have not seen yet)? Rahab –
De Baroeg is a club in Rotterdam; it’s not a very big place, there’s place
for a crowd of about 300 people, I guess. It is the place where black metal
started out in the Netherlands more or less as far as concerts go. Al the
famous early Osmose tours went there, like the Fuck Christ tour (ROTTING
CHRIST/IMMORTAL/BLASPHEMY) and the Ugra Karma tour (IMPALED NAZARENE/ANCIENT
RITES) and even before that there had been so-called Black Metal Masses with BEHERIT
and SAMAEL, for instance. Despite its small size, the club has quite some
reputation – all the major bands have played there at least once or twice. Especially
in the early nineties it was the place to be, and people even came from
abroad to go to concerts there. I have seen so many bands play live there. MAYHEM,
SATYRICON, CRADLE OF FILTH, EMPEROR, etc. all played their first Dutch gigs
over there. We have been so lucky to play there twice ourselves. The ‘owner’
of the place is called Rene Veerkamp, he also writes for Aardschok magazine,
Holland’s biggest metal magazine. At the moment, with black metal’s
decreasing popularity, black metal gigs are becoming fewer and death metal
seems to be taking over. [Great!! - M] I would really like to see ARCTURUS playing live in de Baroeg, but it
will in all likelihood never happen. BTGG – If you were given the chance of
touring, with whom and which countries would you be playing in? What do you
think of these major summer festivals (Dynamo, Wacken, etc.)? Would you say
there was a particular concert, to date, with the required elements for you
to consider it as your favourite concert so far? Rahab –
Sure if we would receive a reasonable offer, we would definitely go on tour! It’s
something I have dreamt of since we began – to go on a tour. There is a
chance we will support FALKENBACH on a tour when the new Falkenbach album is
out. The album is out indeed; it is called Ok nefna tysvar ty If FALKENBACH
will play live, there is a reasonable chance ORDO play as a support for some
gigs – because 3 members of ORDO DRACONIS also participate in the possible
live line-up of FALKENBACH, namely Tyrann, Berry and yours sincerely – we’ll
see how things will work. I can say that the rehearsals have started! The
intentions are there, now let’s see if we can make it work. My ideas about
touring are really not that romantic, I just want to experience it at least
once. And of course it would be great to play as a support act for Vratyas‘ FALKENBACH,
since there is mutual respect both on a musical and on a personal level. It
would be very nice if several Skaldic Art bands could participate on this
tour. It obviously wouldn’t be up to us to decide in which countries we would
play, but it would be great to play some more gigs in Germany, maybe Poland
as well. And, of course, also in the southern part of Europe – Italy and
definitely Portugal too!! I’m not really a die-hard festival metaller, though I went to Dynamo
for 5 years in a row… and had a great time there! The atmosphere was always
very nice… the weather wasn’t, unfortunately. I have never been to Wacken,
but from what I have heard the facilities should be better compared to Dynamo.
But it would be great to play on such a festival… who knows what the future
will bring. We have done various gigs that were really great, but I think if I had
to point out one in particular, it would be the CD presentation for The Wing & the Burden, March 2001.
It was held in Gouda in a place called De Gonz. This simply felt right,
because it is there, that everything started and where we did our first gig
and so on. Many regular visitors accompany us on gigs, no matter where we
play. We have a very loyal following - something to be very grateful for! It
was one of the best days I can recall, with so many great friends being
present, our label mates VINDSVAL opening up and playing an excellent and
successful gig and our own gig was one of the best we ever did, I think. The
moments of holding our debut-CD in my hands for the first time and sharing
the happiness and relief with the people who realised this work will stick to
my mind, always! The party afterwards was great as well, and so was the
response from the audience, who seemed to be impressed. BTTG – Apart from ORDO, you are one of the editors
(along with Joris) of Mandrake Magazine (incredibly awesome and highly above
the average, by the way). When and why did the idea of making a magazine
appear? I heard you are preparing your second attack – almost to be out. Do
you think you can do something for the 'underground'? Have you succeeded in
accomplishing (some of) your initial purposes? Tell something more about it
(contents, etc.). Rahab –
Hmmm, the idea for starting a magazine is just as old as the idea to start a
band. Over 10 years ago, I was going to start a magazine together with Bob
and Moloch, which would be called Epitaph…
and later Last Rites. We did a number of interviews (a.o. with THERION, IMMOLATION
and SINISTER), but we never succeeded in putting out an actual magazine. However,
the desire to create a magazine always stayed with me. It had to be a
magazine of excellent quality contents-wise. Some years ago I met Joris
through VIRUS (see next question), and we became friends. We turned out to
share this dream to start out a decent magazine… and at some point we decided
to go for it. We started out with three – the third guy was Jorre, vocalist
in the Dutch death metal band VIRULENT, but despite his initial enthusiasm,
he soon felt he couldn’t commit to the magazine, which would bear the name Mandrake. A first issue was released
in winter 2000 and the second issue in autumn 2001. Despite some mistakes in
the printing, the 2nd issue was a fair improvement over the first.
The interviews were more balanced and I did the written interviews in two
question rounds, so I could respond to the answers that had been given; apart
of working, I enjoyed it quite a lot. The issue became very thick (over 80
pages). Unfortunately, Joris had to quit as well after the 2nd
issue, due to a very busy job and moving to Italy. The distribution of the
magazine proved to be quite a problem and apparently not that many people in
my direct surroundings were interested in reading it. To continue I recruited
a number of new people including two (former) ORDO members, as a matter of
fact. Arco was to handle The bands featured in Mandrake range from pretty big (MORBID ANGEL,
THERION, etc.) to very underground. No ‘average’ superficial 7-question
interviews are to be found in Mandrake.
If we do not have the idea that we can add something to previously done
interviews by a band, we will not interview them. No distinction is made
between established names and unknown acts when it comes to the size of the
interviews. And I think that all the bands featured have something to offer
to the scene! The main thing we want to offer with Mandrake is quality. This can be either through in-depth
interviews with established acts – in which we try to reveal less-and unknown
aspects/details, and by doing in-depth introduction-interviews with younger
bands. I do hope that I can offer some support to the acts that I think are
promising and that have something special to offer in my view. I dare not say
if I am succeeding, but I really hope so. BTTG – Apart from ORDO and Mandrake, you are an active part of a
Dutch 'metal society' called VIRUS. What does it consist of? How long has it
been active? How many people are involved in it and which are your main
activities? Are you aware of other Dutch 'metal societies' involved in the
scene? I know one, Metal Front Zutphen, created to develop the Zutphenian
scene. Have you ever heard of it? Rahab
– Unfortunately I have to tell you that VIRUS is dead. VIRUS used to be a
metal organisation that aimed at bringing metal fans in the region of Utrecht
together and at supporting the Dutch metal scene in general and the scene in
Utrecht in particular. Most members were students, but it wasn’t like a
condition that you had to be a student in order to become a member. VIRUS had
about 50 members at the moment, the final curtain fell I guess, but only few
of them could be considered active members. By the end, I wasn’t really an
active member myself anymore – I have been chairman on the board for 2 years
and I have helped organising our annual festival ‘Het Festakel’ for four
years – that was my active contribution. After that, I just went to enjoy the
concerts and parties that VIRUS organised.
Apart from organising parties and concerts, VIRUS had its own small
magazine called De Bacil – as a
matter of fact, the first ‘published’ interviews I did were printed in De Bacil. And all kinds of metal and
non-metal activities were organised for the members. I do not know much about the other Dutch metal societies – I know
Eindhoven had one (ESHBF) and Enschede has one (EHBO). We used to organise
this annual festival together with ESHBF – though the festivals were quite
successful and we had quite some established bands playing (SADIST, ORPHANAGE, etc), the co-operation
never was very fluent. Let’s say our views on some matters differed too much.
We decided to organise ‘Het Festakel’ by ourselves and with success – we had
bands like ANCIENT and ANCIENT RITES afterwards. I have heard about this
society from Zutphen but once… strangely enough when I was in Portugal… BTTG – Are there any other activities within /
without the band? Do other members have something going or is OD the main and
sole (pre)occupation musicwise? If there are no side projects, would you like
to have one (I know you usually compose classical pieces yourself)? Does OD
help you fulfil all of your creative needs? Do you aspire to once put in
practice other artistic or non-artistic deeds, such as writing a book, etc.? BTTG – You once said (in Magacinum Ab Ovo / Legacy) you were planning on releasing a
concept 7” once, based on the fall of angels and the subsequent fall of man. You
definitely have to connect them with the myth of Lucifer (and His fall). Do
you feel a particular fascination for this myth (why / why not)? What do you
think of Luciferism / Luciferianism? What do you think of ARCTURUS' 'Fall of
Man'? Does it have anything in common with your approach on this matter or
will you bring forth a different perspective? Do you think Man is predestined
to fall? By now, you still have not made it a dream come true - is there a
fair chance you will, in a near future? How important do you think it is to
preserve vinyl? Rahab –
Yes, I have a strong fascination for the theme of ‘The Fall of the Angels’. There
is this theatre play in Dutch literature, simply called Lucifer. It’s by the Dutch playwright Joost van den Vondel, which
impressed me incredibly much when I read it. It’s really amazing – it dates
from the 17th century if I’m not mistaken, but it appeared so
timely and it’s written with so much passion and empathy. It is true Art in
my view. I do not know much about ‘conventional’ Luciferism – but the
morningstar is a symbol I feel very closely connected to. I do not wish to
dwell upon this subject, I do not wish to disclose in depth what the symbol
means to me – but the fact that I gave it its meaning is part of its essence. The Fall of Man is one of the most beautiful tracks I have heard – I am a great
admirer of ARCTURUS’ work in general. Only very few bands have filled me with
delight as much as this band… just listen to a song like Ad Astra – it’s so incredibly brilliant and beautiful. ARCTURUS also
did a song on the fall of Lucifer: Of
Nails and Sinners, if I’m not in error. The conceptual trilogy I
mentioned in a previous question will deal with the fall of the angels and
the subsequent fall of man. Our approach to the subject will differ from ARCTURUS’
obviously – no need or use to copy them. Midhir and myself have had several
discussions on how we will work out the concept – the actual writing of the
lyrics will be his sole duty. I do not want to reveal too much at this point. Hmm, difficult question – do I think man is predestined to fall? In
the biblical sense, man has already fallen, being driven from the Garden of
Eden. I do not believe predestination has any practical relevance if it
should exist – I dislike it when it is used as an excuse to avoid
responsibility. I think many people have fallen in one way or another – and,
within certain boundary conditions, it needn’t necessarily be a bad thing, I
guess. In an evolutionary sense, man is certain to become extinguished sooner
or later, I guess you might consider that a fall as well… I dare not say of
how much assistance or resistance we will be to evolution. As already mentioned, the songs on The
Fall will be featured on our second album and not on a 7”. Our dream to
release some vinyl jewellery still lives on. Sooner or later we are bound to
release a 7”, I am sure of it. I collect 7”s myself and it would be great to
have one of my own band in my personal collection. I think it is nice to
preserve vinyl – as I said, I am a collector myself, but my arguments are
mainly based on sentiment. I just love the sound of the needle on the vinyl. BTTG
– Would you disclose the veil that rests upon your forthcoming album, the
successor to Wing & The Burden?
At this point, which main features would you point out as the most
characteristic? Of how much assistance to the band as a whole was the fact
that you are not new in the process of composing and recording? Have you got
any scheduled plans for its release? Rahab – Actually I’m not that sure it’s a
good idea to disclose too many veils – people generally prefer to be
enchanted by the undisclosed, particularly if the essence of the undisclosed
itself is likely to be perfect nothingness (it leaves most space for mass
hysteria) rather than being presented with something of which the meaning or
value is Obviously, studio experience has helped us
quite a bit, and the complexity of the whole “operation” definitely requires
that. I mean even the logistics of the recording are quite complicated, with
2 recording sessions in Karlsruhe, and one in Gouda; a drummer coming from
Austria, a vocalist from Karlsruhe and an additional vocalist coming from I
don’t know where. Fortunately, computers make it a whole lot easier to
prepare well and have an adequate communication. The producer also mentioned
we were very well prepared, though even now we learned a couple of things to
be even better prepared. It’s hard to say anything about a date yet,
we still have two recording sessions to go and unfortunately things always
tend to take longer than hoped and expected. A release in the first half of
’04 would be satisfying enough, I guess. BTTG – Your torture session has come to an end. Leave
your final dragon spells. May you fly high with your Draconic Constellation! Rahab
– Well Ondina – thank you very much for this extremely long and interesting
interview. I hope it was worth the wait in some sense – sorry it took me so
incredibly long. This definitely is one of the very best interviews I ever
received. I’m sure we’ll meet again soon…. beyond. To all Portuguese metal
heads I’d like to say – if you have the chance, check out our album The Wing & the Burden. In case it is not to be found in
Portuguese shops or mailorders, it can be ordered directly from us for 15 Euros/US$
(inc p&p). I hope some of you will check it out! We still have very few
copies left of our demo CD In Speculis
Noctis (8 Euros/US$ - inc p&p). People who are interested in learning
more about our band can take a look at our homepage: www.ordodraconis.com
or get in touch, either by e-mail (rahab@ordodraconis.com) or by snail mail:
Ordo Draconis, Archimedesstraat 12, 2871 XL Schoonhoven, Holanda. Finally I
wish to say a big thank you to the many Portuguese metal heads that have
supported us so far through the years – you guys rule!! By Morgana (e-mailed)- Back To The Grave April, 2004 Photos – Ordo Draconis 2004 |
